Prophetic Musings

Thoughts from a small-town, old-fashioned guy living in the suburbs.

Can someone please have him stop talking?
UPDATE: Welcome Instapundit readers! And thanks for the link Glenn.

UPDATE 2: Scroll to the bottom for some further thoughts. 

UPDATE 3: Thanks to everyone who has commented. Also, thanks to ElephantBiz.com for the link as well, though if you don't mind, please correct my name. It's spelled wrong. 

(h/t Instapundit) James Dobson is at it again. While I think that Dr. Dobson has done great things in the past and that he continues to do great things, he really needs to shut up about this.

Focus on the Family founder James Dobson appeared to throw cold water on a possible presidential bid by former Sen. Fred Thompson while praising former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who is also weighing a presidential run, in a phone interview Tuesday.

"Everyone knows he's conservative and has come out strongly for the things that the pro-family movement stands for," Dobson said of Thompson. "[But] I don't think he's a Christian; at least that's my impression," Dobson added, saying that such an impression would make it difficult for Thompson to connect with the Republican Party's conservative Christian base and win the GOP nomination.   

Let me get this straight. Because Fred Thompson is not a Christian, that makes him a bad choice for president? I totally disagree with this line of thinking. Yes, I would prefer someone who is a strong Christian and a strong candidate, but you do realize who else is out there, don't you? (I'm using the list from Wikipedia for possible Republican presidential candidates)

  • Rudy Giuliani - He was great during and after September 11, but I don't understand how he cuts it as a Republican candidate. Yes, he's hard on crime and more fiscally responsible than the current administration, but he's incredibly liberal on social issues like abortion. Not interested.
  • Newt Gingrich - Great mind, great statesman, terrible candidate. The guy is completely unelectable. He's got too much baggage from the mostly unfulfilled "Contract with America" in the early 90s. Too many people have too many bad vibes about him. (Roughly the same is true about Hillary Clinton as well, but we're not covering Democrats now.)
  • Mitt Romney - Seriously? We could have a president named Mitt? I honestly think that the guy has good values and would make a decent president, but that's not what we need right now. We need a statesman much like Ronald Reagan to restore some self-confidence in this nation. Plus, I don't think that Romney can overcome being Mormon. It was a big enough deal for Kennedy to be elected being Catholic, but I don't think Mormonism is mainstream enough to make Romney electable.
  • Sam Brownback - Despite my desire to support him simply because he is from Kansas, nobody knows enough about him to elect him. I'm sure many said the same about Bill Clinton when he was the unknown governor of Arkansas, but Clinton had something that Brownback doesn't have. Charisma.
  • John McCain - He's too divisive. Eight years ago he might have been a good choice. Today, not so much.
  • Duncan Hunter - Who?
  • Ron Paul - Who2?
  • Jim Gilmore - Unless his nickname is "Happy", it's not happening.
  • Mike Huckabee - President Huckabee? To borrow a phrase from the linguistically adept Glenn Reynolds, "Heh".
  • Tom Tancredo - Not likely.
  • Tommy Thompson - I've never known anyone who kept the name Tommy into their adult life and was up to any good. Nice guys, but none I would trust with the Presidency.
  • Chuck Hagel - Simply because of his stance on the war, he won't win. Republican nominees need to be able to get a sizable portion of military votes, and he won't get them.
  • George Pataki - He has some of the same issues that Giuliani has. Too liberal in most areas. Doesn't have Rudy's strength though, which hurts.

Yes, I mailed it in on some of those. Sue me.

This brings us back around to Fred Thompson. He may or may not be a Christian. I'm willing to overlook that in an election. We aren't voting for Senior Pastor here, we are voting for President of the United States. Fred Thompson has a good background as a lawyer and Senator. He's a strong conservative on most all issues, and is an extremely good speaker. We need a statesman right now. Someone who can make the American people feel comfortable with the Presidency. He's connected to Hollywood through Law and Order. And since he was the head of air traffic control when John McClane killed all those terrorists...oh wait. That wasn't real was it? Never mind. (But, if it was real, we could call in John McClane to be the real-life Jack Bauer.)

I think he's a good, viable candidate and would be happy to vote for him, Christian or not. Dr. Dobson needs to realize that he's not the conscience of the entire Christian community. We can make our own choices for president.

UPDATE: Some good points in the comments. I must be honest and say when I wrote this, I wasn't expecting the traffic, but now that it's here I want to address a criticism pointed at me. I want to clarify why I feel the way I do about Dr. Dobson's comments. I realize that his views on Thompson are much the same as my views on Romney. What bugged me the most was that he made an unsolicited phone call to a senior editor to make his comments known. That would be like me taking out a full page ad with this article. I feel that he's making an effort to submarine any possibility of a campaign from Fred Thompson. The fact that he's putting himself into the equation without being asked about it makes it news. I didn't point that out in the original article and I should have.

 

Published Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:06 PM by clay
Filed under: , ,

Comments

# Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:22 AM

by University Update

# @ Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:20 AM

ANOTHER REASON TO LIKE FRED THOMPSON: James Dobson doesn't like him. UPDATE: "I'm willing to overlook that."...

by Instapundit.com (v.2)

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:52 AM

Dr. Dobson apparently thinks Christianity is a small tent. His spokesman is quoted in that article as saying (essentially) that they consider only evangelical Christians as Christian; I think excludes all non-Protestants by definition.

Also, the same spokesman, seemingly without realizing the joke, refers to Dr. Dobson as a practitioner of an occultist ritual known as "reading tea leaves."

Bad form all around.

Jim (a Baptist, not that it matters here)

by Jim Moore

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:06 AM

<p>Leave aside the political issues for now.  Where does Dr. Dobson believe he has insight into who has received God's saving Grace and who has not?  The "fruits" of a person is an <i>indication</i>, but not proof.  Dobson has no idea whether Fred Thompson is "a Christian."</p>

<p>Dobson's comments betray the rot that is at the center of contemporary "evangelicalism."  He views "Chrisianity" as some kind of exclusive club, into which there is some human-based initiation.  By suggesting he can divine God's election of specific individuals, Dobson is trying to step onto the throne alongside God.  Dobson, and others like him (Robertson, Falwell, Haggard) do Jesus Christ an <b>enormous</b> disservice.</p>

by Don in AZ

# Dobson's Choice:@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:10 AM

"Let me get this straight. Because Fred Thompson is not a Christian, that makes him a bad choice for president?" (Prophetic Musings)...

by Pajamas Media

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:21 AM

So let me get this straight, Clay. You can say that Mitt Romney is not a good choice because he's Mormon but Dobson can't say he doesn't think Thompson will necessarily sit well with Christians?  I'm not seeing a difference here.  More troubling is that you think Dobson ought to shut up because he doesn't agree with you.  And Glenn Reynolds' swipe at Dobson really wasn't very grown up, either.

by D

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:32 AM

D,

No, I'm not saying that Mitt Romney shouldn't be president because he is Mormon, I'm saying that Mormonism is not mainstream enough to make him electable. I think he's a fine human being, just don't think he has much of a chance of being elected.

And yes, Dr. Dobson needs to get out of the political arena. He's been more divisive than he's been helpful in that area the last few years.

by clay

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:36 AM

I think Dobson should keep talking. It's exactly this kind of PR that lets us know how much weight to really give Dobson.

by Brett Rogers

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:41 AM

And as D said, that is pretty much what Dobson said.  He said--I don't think this guy is going to connect with the Christian base.

Same thing you said.

And thats a problem.  We have too many people who just want Dobson to shut up.  Many of them are like Insty, who though a good guy mostly, wants less religion in American politics which would make things worse.  Of course, many of them have less integrity than Insty, and just want less Christian religion.  Others are fine.

You're being used.

by Tennwriter

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:44 AM

Dobson's definition of "Christian" not only excludes non-Protestants, but it also excludes the majority of Protestants as well due to his emphasis on public testimony of faith.  I can see questioning someone's commitment to Christianity because of their works (ie: pro-choice Catholics, death penalty supporters, etc.), but James Dobson seems to be slamming Fred Thompson simply because he hasn't heard him testify.

I see several problems with this.

1.  Dr. Dobson is judging Thompson because he's never heard him testify to his faith.  I've never spoken to Dr. Dobson about MY relationship with Jesus.  Does that mean I'm not a "Christian" either?

2.  Dr. Dobson's attack on Fred Thompson was premeditated.  According to what I've heard, Dr. Dobson contacted the media himself to drop this nugget of wisdom.  He can't claim to be misquoted or misinterpreted in this case, especially since his spokesman reiterated the point when contacted.

3.  Dr. Dobson's support for Newt Gingrich seems to fly in the face of this statement.  Is Newt Gingrich "more Christian" than Fred Thompson?  I've never heard either of them testify to their faith, and I am not under the delusion that I can see the content of a person's soul....so I would have to say "I don't know."  Dr. Dobson would have to say the same thing if he were being honest here.

It's too bad that a man who has done many good things has to make such a public blunder as this.  Hopefully, Fred dismisses him in a "Reaganesque" fashion and adds another 5-10% to his poll numbers.

by Russ from Winterset

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:48 AM

The next tome "focus on the family" gets queued up I'm switching on the mute button.

by Ken Bond

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:02 AM

Holy fireballs, Batman, the guy is completely around the bend!

Yes, most Republican conservatives would prefer a Christian as their presidential candidate.  However, electibility is the number one criteria at this point.  Only two or three Republicans have a chance at this point, and, in no particular order, they are:  Romney, Fred Thompson, and Rudi.

We can all argue all day whether sex, race, and religion should count in an election.  Pick-up any rug you wish, but they do count.  No, most of us won't want to admit to that, but we all make conscious and unconscious decisions when voting for President.  Believe me, these three issues count.

Dr. Dobson would serve all sides by putting a sock in it, now and forever.

by Spinoneone

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:04 AM

I am not carrying any water for Dobson, but all he said was that he didn't think that conservative Christians would be inclined to vote for Thompson. (Shoot, everybody and their brother has been saying that conservative Christians may not vote for Giuliani because of his stances on various social issues and nobody got all upset) Clay (and many others)has said he doesn't think the broader American electorate would for Mitt Romney in large part because he is a Mormon.  Others have said that if Barack Obama's Muslim experiences came in to play, that would probably not help him.  

Tell me what makes Dobson's remarks so remarkable, other than the fact that some people may not have liked them?

by D

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:33 AM

Tennwriter and D,

I addressed your comments in an update to the post. You've got good points, but the way Dobson made his views known is what set wrong with me. Thanks for your comments.

by clay

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:12 AM

Well, I do agree that Dobson should not have presumed to speak for others. To talk about his own preferences would be okay. And one should not try to be a pastor while at the same time being publicly political; the two do not go together. Back in 2000 the pastor at my church came about two words short of endorsing Al Gore during his sermon and I found it offensive in its inappropriateness to the occasion.

by D

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:20 AM

D, I see where you're coming from, but I think you don't understand what many of us find offensive about these comments.  

 Evangelicals may not vote for Rudy because of his stands on issues.  That's understandable, and everyone should make their decisions that way.....HOWEVER, Dr. Dobson's statements on Thompson admitted that Fred's positions on social conservative issues CONVERGE with those of evangelicals.  Dr. Dobson's criticism seems to be based on the fact that Fred's not "vocal" enough with his Christian Faith, and the implication is that the lack of vocalization means that his Faith is hollow.  

 If this is allowed to stand as the official policy of the Evangelical Right, candidates will have to "out-Pharisee" each other to pander to this bloc of votes, which will make the Evangelicals look like Pharisees themselves, IMHO.

 By admitting that Thompson's works and stated public positions mesh with those of Evangelicals but still criticising his "lack of REAL Christianity", Dr. Dobson is opening himself up to charges that his attack on Thompson is solely based on his advocacy for Newt Gingrich.  This is a fight that never should have been picked, and I'm frankly disappointed in Dr. Dobson for picking it.  

by Russ from Winterset

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:24 AM

So your objections are two-fold: 1)A process arguement-this is not the way to do things.  2)You support Thompson, and you're worried this will harm Thompson's campaign greatly.

1)Dobson's a newsmaker.  Just like pretty much everyone else at his level in national politics.  Most of the news you see is because someone pulled a PR stunt.

2)I like Thompson myself, and presently would be reasonably happy to vote for him.  Same with Newt.

So I don't see anything wrong with a

Newtonian saying "My candidate is cooler than theirs" or a Fan of Fred saying "My guy is cooler than theirs."

This is politics, and frankly fairly polite politics.

Another factor--this could be an attempt in part by Dobson to redeem Newt from the media blackening of his name which was largely undeserved.  I will grant you some of his personal decisions were bad, but other than that Newt got Borked.

Conservatives need to rescue their wounded, or otherwise how can we ask our paladins to fight their hardest?

And we need to avoid fratricidal conflicts such as trying to shut up decent guys on our side.  

Note, there will still be pushing and shoving because this is after all a rough game, but no fratricides unless the other guy really deserves to be kicked out of the R party.

by Tennwriter

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:24 AM

So a guy like Gingrich can cheat on his wife and divorce more than once, and that's cool by Dobson.

Of course Bill Clinton is also as we all know a deeply spiritually committed Christian, and therefore could conceivably get Dobson's support, but he sleeps with a different woman every night and lies incessantly.

And Dobson couldn't support me as a candidate, since I am an atheist, even though I have been married 20+ years and would never dream of cheating on my wife and lead an exemplary moral life.

You know what, Dobson? Screw you, pal.

When do these deeply religious and committed Christians ever actually have to abide by their alleged principles? I am getting damn tired of this stuff.

The sooner we Republicans slap down clowns like Dobson, loudly, in public, the better.

by Chester White

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:25 AM

So your objections are two-fold: 1)A process arguement-this is not the way to do things.  2)You support Thompson, and you're worried this will harm Thompson's campaign greatly.

1)Dobson's a newsmaker.  Just like pretty much everyone else at his level in national politics.  Most of the news you see is because someone pulled a PR stunt.

2)I like Thompson myself, and presently would be reasonably happy to vote for him.  Same with Newt.

So I don't see anything wrong with a

Newtonian saying "My candidate is cooler than theirs" or a Fan of Fred saying "My guy is cooler than theirs."

This is politics, and frankly fairly polite politics.

Another factor--this could be an attempt in part by Dobson to redeem Newt from the media blackening of his name which was largely undeserved.  I will grant you some of his personal decisions were bad, but other than that Newt got Borked.

Conservatives need to rescue their wounded, or otherwise how can we ask our paladins to fight their hardest?

And we need to avoid fratricidal conflicts such as trying to shut up decent guys on our side.  

Note, there will still be pushing and shoving because this is after all a rough game, but no fratricides unless the other guy really deserves to be kicked out of the R party.

by Tennwriter

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:37 AM

D: I don't think Clay saying "I don't think Romney, as a Mormon, is electable" is equivalent to Dobson saying "I don't think Thompson is a Christian."  In the former, Clay is making a prediction concerning other people's perception and reaction to a fact about the candidate (i.e. Romney is a Mormon).  In the latter, Dobson is profering an opinion about the candidate and then making a prediction concerning other people's reaction assuming they share his perception.  Considering that Dobson is undeniably in a position to help shape that perception for many people his comments are far from passive analysis.  Please note that the quoted portion in the article is where he says "I don't think he's a Christian," not where he opines on the reaction to such an assumption.

by submandave

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:41 AM

Tennwriter - Yes, you're on target with the part about my disagreement with the process. Do my feelings about Thompson make me more likely to disagree with what Dr. Dobson said? Absolutely. I'm trying to look at this election as first, who agrees with the majority of my positions and secondly, who would actually stand a chance of being elected. Up until the possibility of a Fred Thompson campaign started showing up, I was wondering who I would want to support (not that having my support puts any candidate over the top). I like Newt a lot, but I just think he has too much baggage.

I would put forth that many Americans are tired of the Conservative Christian movement. So, in a way it could be that Dobson's coming out against Thompson may be a way of actually helping Thompson out. There are many who have the same attitude as Glenn Reynolds in that if James Dobson doesn't like someone, then that person must be a good candidate.

by clay

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:46 AM

ditto to what Chester White said.  I am far more "christian" in my behavior and actions than 90% of the evangelicals out there.  But I'm an agnostic, so I must be evil.

Since when did it matter more what you say you are than what you do?

by Jan from Atlanta

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:49 AM

D:

I think you make some good points regarding the fact that Dobson is using the same logic that is used by those who say Romney can't win because he's Mormon, or that Obama can't win because he's Muslim.  When I first heard the Dobson quote, I was pretty angry.  But the more I thought about it, I realized that Dobson was simply making a statement of fact, that evangelicals are less likely to support non-evangelicals for president.  I may think anyone who would vote that way is a bigot, but that doesn't mean there aren't lots of people who will vote that way.

But I'm still angry.  And I think who I was really angry at is the Republican Party for coddling Dobson.  Dobson is a private citizen.  He has the right to opine that only evangelicals are Christians (I disagree) or that only evangelicals should be president (I disagree), or whatever his views may be.  But it's up to the Republican Party to decide whether they want to embrace a guy who thinks like that or not.  Considering that Dobson's views will be offensive to pretty much everyone other than evangelical Protestants, and probably to some evangelicals as well, the GOP may want to consider distancing itself from Dobson.  Over the last few years, the GOP leadership has helped to make him a political voice for conservatives.  But with comments like these, Dobson is going to turn off Catholic conservatives, Lutheran conservatives, Jewish conservatives, atheist conservatives, etc.  

So in conclusion, I think that both Dobson and the GOP have a choice.  If Dobson wants to continue to influence politics, he's going to have to be a team player and understand that every Republican isn't an evangelical Christian.  Similarly, if the GOP wants to keep getting votes from Catholics, Jews, and non-evangelical Protestants, it will have to distance itself from anyone who uses offensive language towards these groups.  Maybe Dobson is better off in the ministry than in politics, and maybe Republicans should stick with giving the politics to politicians.

by Thompson Fan

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:54 AM

I think Jan and Chester have pointed out the main flaw in current Christianity. It's like Ghandi said, "Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." We try to put out such an image of how perfect we are, so when we fail it's big news. See Ted Haggard for a great example of this. We need to love everyone, regardless of faith. We've taken to lobbing hand grenades over the theological walls to prove points and it's done nothing but hurt our cause. We can and will disagree about our faith, but what does more to show our own faith? Loving someone despite our disagreement, or going scorched earth on them?

by clay

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:06 AM

Mr Dobson is not a "christian" he is a cult leader instructing the sheep like faithful in being more like him, their Supreme Leader.  As we all know Supreme Leaders are infalliable and must be listened to without question.  Christians must only vote for christians, catholics only for catholics, muslims only for muslins, etc. Is this the American Dream?

by JC

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:09 AM

Clay,

I doubt I'm in that much of a disagreement with you.  I expect we'd line up on most issues.

1. Newt does have a lot of baggage--but if we saved him from the Mediot Attack Machine, that would embolden a lot of our current paladins.

That said, I don't think he has a chance.  However, a race in which Newt is say, in third place, and loses is a lot different race than one in which John McCain is in third place and loses.

I'd like to see Thompson, Romney, and Newt duking it out (politely) in the primaries rather than some other trio.  It would be a much more conservative race that way.

2. Tired of Christian Conservatives?  Hmm, I tend to think the Socons are on the edge of the rising tide.  The opposition is frantic, screaming, acting out, and that does weary people who desire peace and tranquility (which includes me), but keep up the pressure, and the opposition will break.

The last thirty years have been a rollback of Liberalism, and a reinstatement of Conservatism.  We need to continue.

Chester,

Let me commend to your attention three figures from the Bible.

1. King David--termed 'a man after God's own heart' and also, unless you believe the worst speculation about Clinton, a man who did horrible things including murder a battle buddy to cover up the fact David had gotten buddy's wife pregnant, and thus much more horrible than Clinton.  And its not like David didn't have plenty of women--he was an ancient king after all.

2. The Pharisee and the Sinner. The Pharisee stood on a street corner, prayed aloud, complimented God on his good luck in having such a wonderful guy as this very moral Pharisee.

The Sinner stood a long way off in shame, and threw himself on his face, and asked for mercy.

And in this story, no one says the Pharisee was not a wonderful guy.  No one challenges him on his long list of good deeds.  God doesn't smite him down for lying.

But who went down to his house justified by God that day?

I've long thought that a sort of Neo-Puritanism might spring up in this nation after the collapse of "Just Do It".  It would be a hard, judgmental code of behavior.  You can see such springing forth from the Church of Gaia and St. Gore.  But I fear a return of Christianity which will have the form, but lack the true spirit.

Christianity is a relationship.  From that flows morality, and even when that flow is blocked, the relationship is still there.

This is different from a code of behavior one follows because you think its right.

And I suspect you disagree with my view of the world's nature, but I would rather you disagree with actual Christianity than some figment in your mind that you think is Christianity.

Okay, I'm stopping before our genteel host decides to charge me bandwidth.

by Tennwriter

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:25 AM

Tennwriter, great stuff. I'm not going to charge you bandwidth because I'm so happy to have an active comments section. I'll only charge bandwidth to the trolls. ;->

by clay

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:45 AM

Clay, my good man, this is very simple. Christians would vote for a conservative Jew, whatever the left-wing wack jobs may think, and so they certainly will also vote for a non-Christian who is not an atheist. Lots of precedent. Washington was no Christian, although he refused to go there with anyone. He never attended church in his life, and was not known to even speak upon Christianity once. He was, indeed, a beliver, though- of that there is much evidence. The same would be said for Franklin, although he obviously was not president. Jefferson was president, however. Atheist love to claim him, but he also was  not that. There can be no doubt he was not only not Christian, but disliked the religion as well as all others of which he was aware.

Lincoln was atheist until later in life. This was likely due to his great personal loss and anger at God rather than pure conviction. He came to see the hand of God during his struggle in the war, and was humbled by it.

All in all, we don't care whether Thomson is or isn't Christian, but we do care if he has the balls to hold fort in an exremely hostile environment here and abroad, and to this question we do not know much in his favor yet.

by james wilson

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:59 AM

By the way, you mentioned Ghandi remarking that Christians are so unlike Christ.

Nietzsche- The last Christian died on the cross.

Samuel Butler- People in general are equally horrified at hearing the Christian religion doubted, or at seeing it practiced.

Chesterson- Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried.

by james wilson

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:03 AM

Clay, my good man, this is very simple. Christians would vote for a conservative Jew, whatever the left-wing wack jobs may think, and so they certainly will also vote for a non-Christian who is not an atheist. Lots of precedent. Washington was no Christian, although he refused to go there with anyone. He never attended church in his life, and was not known to even speak upon Christianity once. He was, indeed, a beliver, though- of that there is much evidence. The same would be said for Franklin, although he obviously was not president. Jefferson was president, however. Atheist love to claim him, but he also was  not that. There can be no doubt he was not only not Christian, but disliked the religion as well as all others of which he was aware.

Lincoln was atheist until later in life. This was likely due to his great personal loss and anger at God rather than pure conviction. He came to see the hand of God during his struggle in the war, and was humbled by it.

All in all, we don't care whether Thomson is or isn't Christian, but we do care if he has the balls to hold fort in an exremely hostile environment here and abroad, and to this question we do not know much in his favor yet.

by james wilson

# The Daily Fred, March 29, 2007@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:07 AM

Here&#39;s your Daily Fred for Thursday, March 29, chock full of links to news and blog coverage and commentary about possible presidential candidate Fred Thompson. Today&#39;s Daily Fred starts with the Lawrence Journal-World in Lawrence, Kansas, asking,

by ElephantBiz

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:07 AM

It seemed to me that Dr Dobson was trying to play kingmaker here.  Has he been working to rehabilitate Newt's image in anticipation of a run, and fearing that all of that effort might be lost?  In particular, lost to another candidate who may owe nothing to Dr Dobson?  

My local flyover-country radio hosts see a shortage of Christian motive in Dr Dobson's actions.  I have to agree.  

by Fyooz

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:12 AM

Dear submandave:

I agree that Dobson speculating on someone's Christianity is not a good thing. However, the issue of electability was the point.

Other: Has Fred Thompson even announced he's running?  And how much scrutiny has he actually come under?  I would venture to guess that once the media/competitor anal exam began, he would have some things to answer for. And he certainly will be asked to clarify his religious beliefs.

At this point, I would guess our real primary contenders will be (in no special order) Romney, Giuliani, maybe McCain, and Newt and Thompson if they decide to run.  None of them are perfect. For myself, I don't have any faith in the official morality of our government leaders of either party and consider them only Caesars who need to be rendered to. But maybe I'm getting old.

by D

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:26 AM

Fred Thompson was baptized into the UCC and was married in the same church (at least for his 2nd wife) in 2002. Now the UCC and I have a bunch of doctrinal differences on a variety of points but I believe that they pass all the conventional tests for membership in the broad christian trinitarian grouping. Religiously, he's much less objectionable than Romney, even if that's how you want to cast your vote for President. His divorce doesn't speak well of him but he's no Gingrich on this account. He separated from his wife and after several years found someone else.

by TMLutas

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:42 AM

You need to fix your comment about Newt with the Contract with America. All 10 items on the list were brought to a vote, and 9 of the 10 were passed in the House. I'd say Newt did his part as Speaker.

http://www.winningthefuture.com/UserFiles/CWA10Year.pdf

That still doesn't mean I particularly like the guy.

Fred Thompson? I like most of what I'm reading about him, except that he voted yes on McCain-Feingold..that worries me.

by Bill W

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 11:42 AM

My final comment is that we have had a conservative Christian in the White House for six years and his unwillingness to be confrontational, and to stand up for principles, himself and the people who elected him has made him one of the most ineffective presidents I can remember.  Nobody in Washington fears him, and so nobody respects him.  The "new tone" has been a practical disaster.

by D

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:09 PM

Since Dobson has effectively told me that I am not a Christian (since I'm not his type of Christian, which is apparently the only kind), I therefore have no reason to pay any attention to anything he says.

I don't support Thompson, but I think some of Dobson's defenders here are missing the point. It is not whether Dobson is supporting or opposing Thompson -- he obviously has the right to do as he pleases in this regard, and to urge his followers to do likewise -- the issue is the gratuitous insult Dobson directed at Thompson and at tens of millions of good people, who consider themselves good Chritians regardless of what a narrow-minded bigot thinks.

by BobH

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:24 PM

"I feel that he's making an effort to submarine any possibility of a campaign from Fred Thompson." Do you mean, like, you know, trying to TORPEDO him?

-Or is the good Mr. Dobson a closet cannibal desirous of a Thompson sandwich... not a very Christian menu, that.

-Or, like the good Christians of yore Mr. Dobson wants to resort to maimings, bonfires, torture, dunkings, whippings, genocide, wholesale deportations, etc., all in the name of prerserving Christianity.

-And then, of course, the Christians will turn on each other as they have done so many times.

by MMS

# Dobson's motive for phone call@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 4:13 PM

You said your remaining complaint is over Dobson's unsolicited phone call to Gilgoff to make his statement on Thompson. That sounded strange, so I did a little research. On U.S. news site, in another story about the phone call, there's this quote from Gilgoff:

"After being declined interview requests for more than a year and a half, I was obviously shocked to get a phone call from Dobson out of the blue yesterday," Gilgoff says. "But I was gratified to learn that he thinks my book gives him a fair shake. I set out to write a book free of bias, which is difficult to do on a subject as radioactive as the Christian Right."

Now it makes sense. Gilgoff was on CSPAN just last week complaining that after the less-than-flattering title to his book came out (which happened before the book was published) he was shut off from further access to Focus on the Family and he felt like he didn't get a fair shake from Focus. Then, a week later, he gets a call from Dobson telling him that the book fairly represented Focus. That has to be the connection and reason for the phone call. Then they get into a discussion of current politics, and guess what - you get Gilgoff's article that started this whole thread and you suspect bad motives on the part of Dobson. You may need to re-examine that.

by house

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:44 PM

House,

I would agree with you, but if that were the case wouldn't Dobson and FOTF come out against the article? Instead they had a spokesman try to clarify what he said. Not buying it. Dobson is a smart guy and would know that whatever he said to that reporter was going to be fair game.

by clay

# Gilgoff article@ Friday, March 30, 2007 9:19 AM

Clay,

Looks like Focus did exactly as you suggested in your last comment. Listen to today's Focus radio program and the first few minutes are spent addressing the issue, and complaining that Gilgoff didn't get it quite right. If Dobson made any mistake, it was in talking to a MSM reporter at all.

by House

# re: Can someone please have him stop talking?@ Friday, March 30, 2007 9:39 AM

I listened to the audio. If what they are saying is true, then maybe Dobson isn't a bright as I thought him to be. He should have known that talking to a reporter that's been trying to get him on the phone for a year and a half would be dangerous. Then you give the guy that kind of news item. He should be smarter than that.

by clay

# Christ and Culture - Being Controversial@ Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:46 AM

Are we controversial today? I would say that Christianity is and always has been controversial. Why is

by Prophetic Musings